NWN Tech Demo

edited June 2003 in Gaming

Comments

  • edited December 1969
    So, those who have played it on the PC, what is the take ?

    Without any toolset, is this really worth a half a gig download to see this for someone who did enjoy P&P back in the day ?


  • edited December 1969
    Re: NWN Tech Demo

    I'm not sure I understand your Question, but I liked the game. I never even looked at any "toolset."

    N8
  • edited December 1969
    Re: NWN Tech Demo

    On the PC side, you have available to you the tools to create new modules.

    On the Mac (and Linux) sides of the game, if the user community does not write the tools, they are going to be unable to do so.

    Okay, an "I liked the game" from Nate definately puts it higher on my might buy list. A question Nate, do you envision ever dragging it out again, it's been almost a year. D&D is so much better with friends.


  • edited December 1969
    Re: NWN Tech Demo

    I would drag it out again. However! I only liked MP with VOICE chat. We used Teamspeak. Without a good x-platform mac compatable Voice Prg, i would be not so thrilled to play with macheds.

    (or non-voice PeeCeeHeds for that matter.)

    N8

    PS.. module making is for weenies like Ratbert. :)

  • edited December 1969
    [b]I play all the time[/b]

    [quote]
    So, those who have played it on the PC, what is the take ?

    Without any toolset, is this really worth a half a gig download
    to see this for someone who did enjoy P&P back in the day ?

    [/quote]
    I've screwed around with the tools, but as with any good game it takes far more time to *make* a decent module than to download one and play it. There are hundreds of good mods out there, and they're crossplatform as far as I know. I have fun on a couple of different persistant worlds too. There are some bugs and annoyance factors still, and PvP is both popular and essentially idiotic on some servers, but I think the game is a blast. The XPack comes out for PC on Thursday I think. ;)

    Some good websites:

    http://nwvault.ign.com/index2.shtml

    (Files, module rating system, news)

    http://www.planetneverwinter.com/

    (Some files, a useable forum)

    http://nwn.bioware.com/

    (Bioware's site, good forums in a seriously irritating format)

    http://nwn.stratics.com/

    (Files, Module of the week, and news)

    http://www.neverwinterconnections.com/

    (A website for hooking up players with DMs; weeds out most of the griefers but requires a time commitment and possibly a more than casual effort on character creation)

    A couple of persistant world type server's sites:

    http://nwn.black-flag.com/

    http://layonara.com/

    http://www.krynnhaven.com/

    http://nwn.fraghaus.com/

    These last two require you to DL a 'hak' pack of extra files to log in, but are very in depth worlds. The last one runs a Krynn server which is very popular, but also very different from your typical experience, and the higher level characters (8-10 is high level for the server) and DMs all use a TeamSpeak server to communicate. I like the world of this last server, but I hate feeling that I'm just a toy for someone who is 'connected' to play with if he crosses my path, so I stay well away from the plot and such.

    Ramses II
  • edited December 1969
    Teamspeak

    Well, they (the people at the Teamspeak site) claim that Apple gifted them with some hardware and they are oging to do a Mac OS X port after they get Version 2 stabilized on Windows/Linux. Of course that is a saga that has been dragging out more than a bit, so we will see when that happens.

    That is one of the versious development projects that I have been following with interest. Hell, if they published the protocols they used, I would probably try and put together something a bit less elegant on my own.

    One day....

  • edited December 1969
    Re: NWN Tech Demo

    Without a good x-platform mac
    compatable Voice Prg, i would be not so thrilled to play with
    macheds.

    Netfone.

    We used it for Ghost Recon, it worked just fine. It isn't as convenient as Teamspeak, but for small groups it gets the job done cross platformily.

    _/ C's Site o' Fun!
  • edited December 1969
    Okay what USB headset ?

    I know you are on the PC side, but maybe someone on the Mac side would speak up.

    So far the Plantronics line looks mighty nice, but what do I know ?
  • edited December 1969
    Re: NWN Tech Demo

    So, those who have played it on the PC, what is the take ?

    Without any toolset, is this really worth a half a gig download
    to see this for someone who did enjoy P&P back in the day ?

    I've been staying away from spoiling myself on this game for as long as I could, but now I'm BitTorrenting the demo as I write.

    As a Mac user and a huge current RPG'er (non-computer, mind you), I nonetheless am probably not going to bite on this unless it's released well below the $50 level (or by some miracle they roll in the expansion pack). I really felt like Bioware jacked the cross-platform issue for all it was worth in PR without delivering the product. I'm disgusted with how long this took to come to the shelf and the lame, lame, lame excuses for the lack of non-Windows toolset.

    I've lived with the state of Mac gaming for a long time and it fits pretty well with my limited time for them these days. But, for some reason, the continual dishonesty (or, I guess slippery truth) really ticked me off with NWN. If it had been completely PC only from the start, I doubt I would be caring much. I've really never complained about a game not being ported. But, if you're going to commit to it, do it right--with quality and timeliness. Otherwise, let me get all hot & bothered about some other game.

    It leaves the same bad taste in my mouth as Bungie has now with Halo.


    image
  • edited December 1969
    Downloaded, ran through the tech demo, clean

    Going to have to see what they try to do with price and SoU before I decide to buy though, I have some of the same reservations as you.
  • edited December 1969
    Re: NWN Tech Demo

    After various run ins with MUDs that have collectively devoyered close to half a year of my life, I've been trying to stay a fair distance from multiplayer RPGs fearing being sucked into them 24/7.

    I've heard far too many good things about NWN not to give it a wholehearted effort though.

    So, I need to be won over. Does it feature typical online RPG Life Sapping™ technology, or can you quickly and easily run away from it at a moment's notice?

    Of course, the issue probably has more to do with my constant desire to find something that is more fun and easier to do than that which I _have_ to do than the addictive quality of NWN, or any game for that matter. :)

    -Cob
  • edited December 1969
    Solution:

    So, I need to be won over. Does it feature typical online RPG
    Life Sapping™ technology, or can you quickly and easily
    run away from it at a moment's notice?

    Here's the trick: Find an ORPG that you have a love/hate relationship with. One that you like more than enough on the surface, but has some qualities about it that are so annoying that if you did fully immerse yourself therein, your immune system would immediately begin to reject it. I like my metaphors thoroughly pureed.

    Fortunately, these days most of them have enough blaring problems these days that Life Sapping is less of a danger. Or at least I find it that way. Full immersion for a few days, followed by a massive loss of interest, followed by a return a few days later with slightly less immersion, and eventually a long-term sort of balance can be achieved. It's like figuring out how much beer you can drink without puking and/or stumbling off of a balcony--that perfect equilibrium.

    Alternate solution: get a girlfriend. Then you won't have enough time in complete immersion to get fully sapped. A caveat: Never, under any circumstances, date someone who is crazy about the same ORPG as you. At that point, instead of having a lifeline pulling you back into reality, you've suddenly got a huge lead weight tied around your neck dragging you deeper into the murkiest of depths. Not healthy.

    Hmm, I didn't abuse that last metaphor enough. Pretend I said something about alarm clocks in there somewhere.

    -Eye
  • edited December 1969
    More encouragement required :)

    Here's the trick: Find an ORPG that you have a love/hate
    relationship with. One that you like more than enough on the
    surface, but has some qualities about it that are so annoying
    that if you did fully immerse yourself therein, your immune
    system would immediately begin to reject it. I like my metaphors
    thoroughly pureed.

    Herein lies the problem. I look for this sort of quality when I fear that I'm becoming too drawn in, find too many, and quit. Skeep will attest to this.

    Fortunately, these days most of them have enough blaring
    problems these days that Life Sapping is less of a danger. Or at
    least I find it that way. Full immersion for a few days,
    followed by a massive loss of interest, followed by a return a
    few days later with slightly less immersion, and eventually a
    long-term sort of balance can be achieved. It's like figuring
    out how much beer you can drink without puking and/or stumbling
    off of a balcony--that perfect equilibrium.

    Can we define inappropriate for our good friend Eye? I see where you're going with it, but a few less analogies involving falling off balconies whilst drunk when talking to me please. ;)

    Alternate solution: get a girlfriend. Then you won't have enough
    time in complete immersion to get fully sapped. A caveat: Never,
    under any circumstances, date someone who is crazy about the
    same ORPG as you. At that point, instead of having a lifeline
    pulling you back into reality, you've suddenly got a huge lead
    weight tied around your neck dragging you deeper into the
    murkiest of depths. Not healthy.

    I _think_ a similar technique worked pretty well in what little I remember of last year. I'm not sure about the timing, but I totally dissed whoever I was playing Medievia with for one of those much despised amongst MUD fanboys/girls real life relationships.

    Maybe I'm just not cut out for RPGs. Too slow and drawn out. When we were all playing Utopia all those years ago, I stopped checking my province every hour long before anyone else. Let's all get hooked on an action/RTS/RTT game again. :)

    -Cob
  • edited December 1969
    Well...

    NWNs multiplayer has a little of everything. If you want life sucking time demands, play on a persistant world. If you want Diablo hack and slash there are good action servers and solo modules. If you want a story you can pick up and leave there are some very good solo modules and some story based MP servers. You can even sign up at NWN Connections and do a more scheduled, controlled kind of thing; more like PnP DnD.

    The power is in *your* hands. ;)

    Ramses II
  • edited December 1969
    Score!

    I'm converted chumbo.

    Guess I'll grab the tech demo and see if it even works for me after all that. :)

    -Cob
  • edited December 1969
    Gah

    Guess I'll grab the tech demo and see if it even works for me
    after all that. :)

    I daren't test this iBook's luck after reading over the requirements. It failed Jedi Knight's video card with 32mb of VRAM "requirement" in the playability stakes rather dramatically. It was like playing Myth with a ping of 1.1 seconds. Sigh.

    -Cob
  • edited December 1969
    Re: More encouragement required :)

    Can we define inappropriate for our good friend Eye? I see where
    you're going with it, but a few less analogies involving falling
    off balconies whilst drunk when talking to me please. ;)

    Sorry, that was rather poor taste on my part. 'Twas a joke gone wrong.

    -Eye
  • edited December 1969
    Re: More encouragement required :)

    Sorry, that was rather poor taste on my part. 'Twas a joke gone
    wrong.

    np. I've gone into that sort of territory before myself. It's not much fun when you first realise what you said, and who you said it to. I understood the metaphor though.

    I've been pulled up myself by close friends for joking about heights, or using them metaphorically, since the accident. ;)

    -Cob
  • edited December 1969
    Re: More encouragement required :)

    np. I've gone into that sort of territory before myself. It's
    not much fun when you first realise what you said, and who you
    said it to. I understood the metaphor though.

    I've been pulled up myself by close friends for joking about
    heights, or using them metaphorically, since the accident. ;)

    Hey, if you can't make jokes about a friend's (or your own) nearly-fatal accident, what can you make jokes about? (Just remember the formula: tragedy + time = comedy)

    Blobs of Glup
  • edited December 1969
    [b]Good news![/b]

    [quote]
    I daren't test this iBook's luck after reading over the
    requirements. It failed Jedi Knight's video card with 32mb of
    VRAM "requirement" in the playability stakes rather
    dramatically. It was like playing Myth with a ping of 1.1
    seconds. Sigh.

    [/quote]
    Might be for the best anyway.

    The expansion pack is out for PC but has still not yet been announced for Mac. The NWN app shipping for Mac reportedly will have the updated application (same version that ships for the PC in the expansion box). So, we're apparently waiting for licensing/packaging/whatever for frikin' data files. Rumor had it that it might have been included with NWN but that some lincense holder wouldn't sign off on the bundling/price/whatever. I hate this industry. It's so messed up...

    Why do you care? Well you'll need the expansion pack to connect to any server that's got it (read: most in a few months). You'll also need it for any content made with it, or even made without the content but with the updated base NWN files (read: anything new or updated in a few months). This last bit can apparently be 'fixed' with a file converter/type changer of some sort. And a caveat on the first gripe is that the Mac version will have the server app included.

    The retail price looks like it's being positioned at $50 by MacSoft (who felt that they had to take $10 off the premium price due to the lack of toolset). Bottom line is that we might have to wait even a few more months and spent ~$20 more to keep parity with the PC users and be able to use the same servers & mods. Wouldn't be such a big deal if the game had come out 6 months ago... Gosh, I'm so excited now...

    I think this is pretty close to the mark from my reading on the NWN formus, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.


    [img]http://www.clanplaid.net/~charon/charon.gif[/img]
  • edited December 1969
    Re: Good news!

    Might be for the best anyway.

    The expansion pack is out for PC but has still not yet been
    announced for Mac. The NWN app shipping for Mac reportedly will
    have the updated application (same version that ships for the PC
    in the expansion box). So, we're apparently waiting for
    licensing/packaging/whatever for frikin' data files . Rumor had
    it that it might have been included with NWN but that some
    lincense holder wouldn't sign off on the
    bundling/price/whatever. I hate this industry. It's so messed
    up...

    Nah, the PC version updated to 1.30 before SoU was generally available too, that patch fixes some issues with the release but mostly addresses old bugs. The XP from my perspective doesn't look all that more complicated, if the base application has been ported it logically shouldn't take long to do the rest (If whomever has the will and the resources).

    Why do you care? Well you'll need the expansion pack to connect
    to any server that's got it (read: most in a few months). You'll
    also need it for any content made with it, or even made without
    the content but with the updated base NWN files (read: anything
    new or updated in a few months). This last bit can apparently be
    'fixed' with a file converter/type changer of some sort. And a
    caveat on the first gripe is that the Mac version will have the
    server app included.

    There's already so much content out there you'd probably have to make an effort to notice. Seriously, there are thousands of mods, some of them commercial quality, you can play solo or with friends that won't require SoU. I can recommend some if you end up getting the game.

    The retail price looks like it's being positioned at $50 by
    MacSoft (who felt that they had to take $10 off the premium
    price due to the lack of toolset). Bottom line is that we might
    have to wait even a few more months and spent ~$20 more to keep
    parity with the PC users and be able to use the same servers
    & mods. Wouldn't be such a big deal if the game had come out
    6 months ago... Gosh, I'm so excited now...

    Yeah, by which time Bioware will be milking us with yet another expansion. They can smell the writing on the wall, this is the way to stretch an MMORPG free of monthly fees into a more profitable venture. In other bad news, if they didn't do the tools now they probably never will.

    I think this is pretty close to the mark from my reading on the
    NWN formus, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

    Ramses II

    P.S. It's still a great game. ;)
  • edited December 1969
    Re: Good news!

    There's already so much content out there you'd probably have to
    make an effort to notice. Seriously, there are thousands of
    mods, some of them commercial quality, you can play solo or with
    friends that won't require SoU. I can recommend some if you end
    up getting the game.

    I don't doubt it from what I've heard. I guess I was most worried about being able to connect to servers and being able to use the latest versions of the high-quality content. I'm extrapolating here, but my experience is that the good stuff usually gets refined as time goes on. From the little I've read, it sounds like refining with an SoU upgraded NWN will change something about the file that will require SoU, even if you don't add hard content from the data files that it provides.

    Yeah, by which time Bioware will be milking us with yet another
    expansion. They can smell the writing on the wall, this is the
    way to stretch an MMORPG free of monthly fees into a more
    profitable venture.

    Agreed, agreed... As I said before, the engine/interface/GUI is the best I've ever seen in an RPG. From what I've heard from my friends here that have it, the story is not up to BioWare's quality. I certainly would pay good money for a BG2 type epic story expansion for NWN.

    In other bad news, if they didn't do the
    tools now they probably never will.

    Yeah, no one thinks they are ever going to. My hopes are pinned on the Open Knights' efforts. I haven't read squat about their work or progress, but I sure hope Bioware at least gives them the nod and some specs to help the process along. It's the least they can do...

    P.S. It's still a great game. ;)

    I know, I know... which is why it's so maddening :)

    One other potential issue I've heard bandied around is that you can't effectively DM even a downloaded module without the tools. The idea being that the tools allow you to poke around 'behind the walls' to check out all the things first before running the game. Any comments about that?

    image
  • edited December 1969
    Re: Good news!

    I don't doubt it from what I've heard. I guess I was most
    worried about being able to connect to servers and being able to
    use the latest versions of the high-quality content. I'm
    extrapolating here, but my experience is that the good stuff
    usually gets refined as time goes on. From the little I've read,
    it sounds like refining with an SoU upgraded NWN will change
    something about the file that will require SoU, even if you
    don't add hard content from the data files that it provides.

    Hmm, well, I'd say the best current solo modules aren't due for any changes. Most of them are a series, and the ones that are already complete will always be playable in the base NWNs. For the persistant worlds or action servers, heck, pretty much every server, they're going to go to SoU eventually (Unless a Mac user is hosting them ;). New content created with SoU won't be backwards compatible even if they skip the new tilesets and such, because new skills have been added (At least this is my guess, nothing's for sure). Even so, there's enough content out there in the form of modules and hak packs that the game can have a good long lifespan, and Mac users can use the material already out there in broad strokes to make their own PWs.

    It's not a great situation, but it could be worse.

    Agreed, agreed... As I said before, the engine/interface/GUI is
    the best I've ever seen in an RPG. From what I've heard from my
    friends here that have it, the story is not up to BioWare's
    quality. I certainly would pay good money for a BG2 type epic
    story expansion for NWN.

    Eh, the story was a bit hack and slash, but there were certainly some clever and fun elements and it was a solid introduction to the engine's abilities. There's a team working to bring the BG and BG2 stories into the NWNs engine, though I haven't been following their progress.

    Yeah, no one thinks they are ever going to. My hopes are pinned
    on the Open Knights' efforts. I haven't read squat about their
    work or progress, but I sure hope Bioware at least gives them
    the nod and some specs to help the process along. It's the least
    they can do...

    I know, I know... which is why it's so maddening :)

    One other potential issue I've heard bandied around is that you
    can't effectively DM even a downloaded module without the tools.
    The idea being that the tools allow you to poke around 'behind
    the walls' to check out all the things first before running the
    game. Any comments about that?

    I wouldn't agree with that. There are some complex functions that might be trouble and you'd probably want to poke through in 'DebugMode' to see the triggers, but my (limited) experience with live DM'd games is that the majority of the DM's actions are 'live,' which is to say they don't need precursors laid down in the module. Certainly for online servers it's rare that a DM needs to do more than be paying attention and weeding out morons.

    Ramses II
  • edited December 1969
    Re: More encouragement required :)

    Hey, if you can't make jokes about a friend's (or your own)
    nearly-fatal accident, what can you make jokes about? (Just
    remember the formula: tragedy + time = comedy)

    That's what I always thought before waking up one afternoon in late November last year and learning I'd scared the absolute hell out of my dearest friends and family a month and a bit earlier. Well, I _think_ it was late November. My memory is very piecemeal until March when it became just a lil piecemeal. ;)

    Your formula is true as long as you're not closely related or involved with the tragedy's victim or are the tragedy's victim.

    I'm not smacking you down or seeking even more sympathy. Far from it. I've had quite enough of that.

    -Cob
  • edited December 1969
    Ok, I'm looking forward to its release

    Typically, I'm starting to have fun with it when I experience my first crash. Thankfully this is only a tech demo. ;) I think I just had to deal with not having played any actual CRPGs besides tacky MUDs in the past. Does anyone have any idea what the Mac release date is?

    -Cob
  • edited December 1969
    Re: Ok, I'm looking forward to its release

    Typically, I'm starting to have fun with it when I experience my
    first crash. Thankfully this is only a tech demo. ;) I think I
    just had to deal with not having played any actual CRPGs besides
    tacky MUDs in the past. Does anyone have any idea what the Mac
    release date is?

    Best guesses I've heard are mid- to late-July. I think if they slide into August, they might be risking their lives from the growing vehemence in the posting over the last few month ;)

    Right around the D&D 3.5e release, coincidentally, so now not only the game, but also the rules will be passe too :) Just kidding, just kidding...

    image
  • edited December 1969
    Re: Ok, I'm looking forward to its release

    Best guesses I've heard are mid- to late-July. I think if they
    slide into August, they might be risking their lives from the
    growing vehemence in the posting over the last few month ;)

    Right around the D&D 3.5e release, coincidentally, so now not
    only the game, but also the rules will be passe too :) Just
    kidding, just kidding...

    The rules in NWN are already plenty far off of D&D 3e, anyways. I don't think the relatively minor revisions in 3.5e will drastically alter that existing distance. :)

    -Eye
  • edited December 1969
    OpenKnights

    I dug into the OpenKnights stuff last night. With the files in the tech demo I can at least take a look at it.

    There is a fair amount of information and a really decent amount of starting code. It really looks like they might have a chance of generating some useful tools for hacking modules or even possibly putting modules together.

    My problem with the current code is the high amount of starting knowledge they require to get started in it.

    For example... the CVS files do not contain many of the files that are assumed to be present in an autoconf/automake environment, but the the instructions note that you just run './configure' then 'make'. No way. Without files such as ltconfig, config.sub and config.h.in, lot's of other operations must be run before you can just go forward with either of those operations. Even after you muddle through these, you find that the Makefile generated depends upon files and directories nowhere in their CVS archives (at which point last night I figured to put it away for the night).

    On the other hand the Manfred project is someplace I can put in some interest. This is a Project Builder project that just runs nicely. It is at version 0.4 right now and lots of functionality is absent and the nib files really need some tweaking, but they have a disk image that you can just run from and take a look at things like scripts very easily. When I downloaded the source all I had to do to recompile my own version was to double-click on the project and build it, no fuss, no muss (though more warnings than I like to see). Worth the download for the disk image even if you have no desire to make any changes just so you can take a look at the scripts (type NSS, I assume NSC are the compiled scripts).

  • edited December 1969
    Addendum

    Figured out the snafu in the installation instructions. By running "./autogen.sh powerpc-apple-darwin6.6" I was able to get it to configure and make in a single step (odd that, autoconf.sh is just supposed to generate the configure file and run that, not also run make).

    Now to explore... or go watch T3... decisions, decisions


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