[Panamon] Computer Trouble, seeking advice

edited May 2002 in General Discussion

Comments

  • edited December 1969
    Hey all. I was quite distressed recently when my Beige G3 desktop mac, which I've had for almost four years now, failed to boot. Further investigation revealed that the IDE bus was not powering up my IDE devices - a hard drive (the boot drive) and a CD burner. The SCSI drive booted fine, but the ROM decided not to boot off of the system folder on that drive. I was wondering if the easiest solution is to replace the mobo (eBay), or if there could be other problems with simpler solutions. I've made a number of upgrades to this machine, but I don't think any of them could cause this problem.

    -233 mhz g3, upgraded with 400 mhz g3 processor
    -448 megs ram
    -20 gb IDE HD, 16x Yamaha IDE CDRW drive
    -8 GB SCSI drive
    -voodoo3 card.

    So it's old, but I only play TFL so :P. I'd like to delay buying a new computer for as long as possible, since a new mac would be a large $ outlay for me.

    Thanks,
    Evan/Pan
  • edited December 1969
    Re: Computer Trouble, seeking advice

    So it's old, but I only play TFL so :P. I'd like to delay buying
    a new computer for as long as possible, since a new mac would be
    a large $ outlay for me.

    (bites tongue ... hard)

    _/ C

  • axx
    edited December 1969
    Dude, you're getting a dell! [nt]


  • edited December 1969
    Questions...

    Pan,

    Is there power going to the IDE devices? In other words, either listen/feel for IDE drive spin-up or use a voltmeter to check the IDE power connector. If there's no power, this is probably easy to fix.

    Also when you say it refused to boot, how far did it get down this list?

    1) Bong
    2) Grey screen
    3) Looking for a disk icon
    4) Mac Icon
    5) Welcome to Macintosh

    You can ping me on CPHL of course.

    Ephemeris

    Hey all. I was quite distressed recently when my Beige G3
    desktop mac, which I've had for almost four years now, failed to
    boot. Further investigation revealed that the IDE bus was not
    powering up my IDE devices - a hard drive (the boot drive) and a
    CD burner. The SCSI drive booted fine, but the ROM decided not
    to boot off of the system folder on that drive. I was wondering
    if the easiest solution is to replace the mobo (eBay), or if
    there could be other problems with simpler solutions. I've made
    a number of upgrades to this machine, but I don't think any of
    them could cause this problem.

    -233 mhz g3, upgraded with 400 mhz g3 processor
    -448 megs ram
    -20 gb IDE HD, 16x Yamaha IDE CDRW drive
    -8 GB SCSI drive
    -voodoo3 card.

    So it's old, but I only play TFL so :P. I'd like to delay buying
    a new computer for as long as possible, since a new mac would be
    a large $ outlay for me.

    Thanks,
    Evan/Pan

    The Knack
    image
  • edited December 1969
    Re: Computer Trouble, seeking advice

    Hey all. I was quite distressed recently when my Beige G3
    desktop mac, which I've had for almost four years now, failed to
    boot. Further investigation revealed that the IDE bus was not
    powering up my IDE devices - a hard drive (the boot drive) and a
    CD burner. The SCSI drive booted fine, but the ROM decided not
    to boot off of the system folder on that drive. I was wondering
    if the easiest solution is to replace the mobo (eBay), or if
    there could be other problems with simpler solutions. I've made
    a number of upgrades to this machine, but I don't think any of
    them could cause this problem.

    -233 mhz g3, upgraded with 400 mhz g3 processor
    -448 megs ram
    -20 gb IDE HD, 16x Yamaha IDE CDRW drive
    -8 GB SCSI drive
    -voodoo3 card.

    So it's old, but I only play TFL so :P. I'd like to delay buying
    a new computer for as long as possible, since a new mac would be
    a large $ outlay for me.

    Thanks,
    Evan/Pan

    There's a chance it might still be working, just appearing that it's not... I'd try having just one or the other IDE device plugged in at any one time and see if it'll boot up (HD sys folder or System CD) Sometimes, a funky HD will not only refuse to boot, it'll mess up the rest of the IDE bus.

    Of course, if you have the CD only connected, you have to change it to MASTER if it was set to Slave when connected to the bus along with the internal HD.

    Like Eph suggests, a bit more info would be helpful.

    Oh, and some good news if it looks really bleak: I have a client that has an old beige G3... he might part with the mobo for real cheap. Like $75 or something. Offer only good for you, as I'll have to talk to him about it. Let me know via email.

    - F


    Bungie Sightings
  • edited December 1969
    Re: Questions...

    Pan,

    Is there power going to the IDE devices? In other words, either
    listen/feel for IDE drive spin-up or use a voltmeter to check
    the IDE power connector. If there's no power, this is probably
    easy to fix.

    As far as I can tell, niether the CD-RW drive or the hard drive are getting any power. The HD doesn't spin up, and the CDRW power indicator light won't come on. The C drive also won't open. I don't have a voltmeter handy (nor would I know how to use it), so I haven't checked that way.

    Also when you say it refused to boot, how far did it get down
    this list?

    1) Bong

    Only this far. I tried booting with just the SCSI hard drive attached - there is a system folder on that drive - but it wouldn't boot.

    2) Grey screen
    3) Looking for a disk icon
    4) Mac Icon
    5) Welcome to Macintosh

    You can ping me on CPHL of course.

    I guess I'll install hotline on this machine then. P2 200. Yay government computers! :)

    Ephemeris

  • edited December 1969
    Re: Computer Trouble, seeking advice

    There's a chance it might still be working, just appearing that
    it's not... I'd try having just one or the other IDE device
    plugged in at any one time and see if it'll boot up (HD sys
    folder or System CD) Sometimes, a funky HD will not only refuse
    to boot, it'll mess up the rest of the IDE bus.

    Of course, if you have the CD only connected, you have to change
    it to MASTER if it was set to Slave when connected to the bus
    along with the internal HD.

    I'll see if this will work. See my response to Eph's post, too. Is there any way to force the computer to boot off of the SCSI drive? The reason I had a system folder on that drive was in case something like this happened. The SCSI drive _does_ power up.

    Oh, and some good news if it looks really bleak: I have a client
    that has an old beige G3... he might part with the mobo for real
    cheap. Like $75 or something. Offer only good for you, as I'll
    have to talk to him about it. Let me know via email.

    I want to play around a little bit more before replacing the motherboard. Whether or not he wants to sell, there are a few on eBay. (Not that I'm unwary about buying motherboards from eBay.)

    Evan/Pan
  • edited December 1969
    [b]Re: Computer Trouble, seeking advice[/b]

    [quote]
    I'll see if this will work. See my response to Eph's post, too.
    Is there any way to force the computer to boot off of the SCSI
    drive? The reason I had a system folder on that drive was in
    case something like this happened. The SCSI drive _does_ power
    up.

    I want to play around a little bit more before replacing the
    motherboard. Whether or not he wants to sell, there are a few on
    eBay. (Not that I'm unwary about buying motherboards from eBay.)

    Evan/Pan

    [/quote]
    The SCSI drive is external, right? And you're getting a BONG sound but nothing else? 2 things:

    1. Your G3's PRAM Battery is dead. This is a likely situation with such an old machine. You can pick one up Radio Shack, believe it or not, it's like the ONLY Mac part they carry. Expect to pay about $10-20.

    http://www.lowendmac.com/trouble/battery.shtml

    2. The G3's power supply is fried. You should be able to score this from Ebay. See link:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2028288400



    [url=http://bs.bungie.org/]Bungie Sightings[/url]
  • edited December 1969
    [b]I'm glad you asked that (and many other answers)[/b]

    [quote]
    Is there any way to force the computer to boot off of the SCSI
    drive? The reason I had a system folder on that drive was in
    case something like this happened. The SCSI drive _does_ power
    up.

    [/quote]
    Okay it sounds like a bad power supply, a bad IDE cable or a very dead drive. You said you got no gray-screen which makes me think it's not the drive. In any case, believe it or not:

    To boot from a specific SCSI ID number (where # = SCSI ID number) type:

    CMD-OPT-SHIFT-DELETE-#

    Here's my big list of weird Macintosh startup sequences. It frequently saves someone from having a big paperweight on their desk

    Most of the list is cribbed from MacFreak

    http://www.interactivepages.com/macfreak/index1.html

    I also added some new weird ones for the new "Pro" keyboards that don't have power keys.

    The OSX section is courtesy of MacFixit.

    http://www.macfixit.com

    It's always useful enough to print out and save for when the Mac just won't boot, etc.

    Mac OSX Startup keys:

    Restart/Sleep/Cancel/Shut Down Dialog.................Ctrl-Eject

    verbose mode..........................................V
    This is a black screen with white text. It starts with a list of items describing initialization information and eventually it shifts to the normal Mac OS X startup screen.

    single-user mode......................................S
    At first, it seems identical to verbose mode, except that, in this case, the mode ends by leaving you at a UNIX-like prompt.

    Select startup volume.................................Option
    This does pretty much the same thing that would happen if you were using Mac OS 9. You get a special screen where you can select among different Startup volume choices.

    Boot to Open Firmware.................................Command-Option-O-F
    If you are unable to startup, one suggestion here is to type: "set-defaults" and then "bye." This may work to successfully let you start up.

    Automatically reboots into Mac OS 9...................Command-Option

    Here are some new ones for the Apple Pro Keyboard that has an "Eject" key instead of a "Power" key

    Restart/Sleep/Cancel/Shut Down Dialog.................Ctrl-Eject

    Other keyboard shortcuts: (These functions happen IMMEDIATELY, without dialog boxes.)

    IMMEDIATE Sleep...................... ................CMD-OPT-EJECT

    IMMEDIATE Restart.....................................CMD-CTRL-EJECT
    (this is a PROPER restart, as if you hit RESTART from the SPECIAL menu, not like the old CMD-CTRL-POWER combination)

    IMMEDIATE Shut Down...................................SHIFT-CTRL-OPT-CMD-EJECT
    (again, this is a PROPER shut down, as if you hit SHUT DOWN from the SPECIAL menu)

    Bypass startup drive and boot from another............CMD-OPT-SHIFT-DELETE
    (remember with acronym DOCS. Jumps to the next
    SCSI ID that is NOT the designated startup disk)

    Boot from CD (Most late model Apples) ............... C

    Boot from a specific SCSI ID number
    (#=SCSI ID number)................................... CMD-OPT-SHIFT-DELETE-#

    Zap PRAM ............................................ CMD-OPT-P-R

    Disable Extensions .................................. SHIFT

    Rebuild Desktop ..................................... CMD-OPT

    Start without finder windows open.................... OPT

    Boot with Virtual Memory off......................... CMD

    Trigger extension manager at boot-up................. SPACE

    Force Quadra av machines to use TV as a monitor...... CMD-OPT-T-V

    Boot from ROM (Mac Classic only)..................... CMD-OPT-X-O

    Force PowerBooks to reset the screen................. R

    Force an AV monitor to be recognized as one.......... CMD-OPT-A-V

    Eject Boot Floppy.................................... Hold Down Mouse Button After startup:

    Bring up dialogue for shutdown/sleep/restart......... POWER

    Eject a Floppy Disk.................................. CMD-SHIFT-1, 2 or 0

    Force current app to quit............................ CMD-OPT-ESC
    Unconditionally reboot............................... CTRL-CMD-POWER
    Fast Shutdown.........................................CTRL-CMD-OPT-POWER

    Goto the debugger (if MacsBug is installed).......... CMD-POWER

    Put late model PowerBooks & Desktops to sleep........ CMD-OPT-POWER

    Application Specific Keys:

    Startup key combos to reset the resolution on video boards:

    SuperMac (at least some models)press & hold....... OPT

    Imagine 128 Card (reset resolution)............... N

    RasterOps (at least some models) press & hold......CMD-OPT-SHIFT

    Radius (Use cable sense pins to set resolution)... U

    Radius (Cycle through available resolutions)...... T

    Conflict Catcher:

    Pause Boot........................................ P (?)

    Launch CC at Startup.............................. SPACE or CAPS LOCK

    Skip remaining extensions......................... CMD-PERIOD

    Reboot cleanly while loading extensions........... CMD-R

    RAM Doubler:

    Disable at Startup................................ ~ (Tilde) or ESC (?)

    Apple System Installer:

    Change custom install to clean install............ CMD-Shift-K

    Claris Emailer:

    Bypass specified startup connections.............. Hold CMD at launch

    Bring up rebuild options.......................... Hold OPT at launch

    Easter Eggs:

    See Apple QuickTime Team's picture in Startup........ CMD-OPT-Q-T

    See message from CD-ROM driver team at Startup....... CMD-OPT-C-D

    Map Control Panel, to get to the Middle of Nowhere... Type "Middle of"

    Below is more stuff Gathered over time:

    Make sure to hold down the option + command keys as you select
    the Chooser >from the Apple Menu so the Chooser Cache is cleared

    Reformat (floppy or hard drive)...................... CMD-OPT-SHIFT

    Ignore platform on install........................... OPT-double click

    clean install within installer:.......................CMD-SHIFT-K

    reset the video...................................... Command+Option+o+v

    MacOS 8.1 Finder:
    OS 8.1 introduces a couple of new keyboard shortcuts for dealing with open pop-up windows. They are:

    Command-Shift-W: This command closes an open pop-up window and makes it disappear into the window's host folder deleting the pop-up window's tab at the bottom of the screen. Contrast this with Command-W that closes the
    pop-up window back into the tab.

    Command-Option-Shift-W: Closes all open windows as well as deletes the open pop-up windows tab.

    Command-Option-W closes all windows and retains the open pop-up windows tab.

    Resetting the PowerBook G3 Power Manager: Intermediate

    The new PowerBooks are smart and cool but even these mighty machines >are susceptible to the vagaries of computing. Should one of these aforementioned vagaries upset your PowerBook to the point where it >needs its Power Manager reset, here's how to go about it:
    Turn off the PowerBook and then press the Shift, Function (Fn), >Control, and Power keys. This resets the Power Manager. Now start the PowerBook by pressing the Power key.

    You can also reset the Power Manager by zapping
    the PowerBook's PRAM. ................................Command-Option-P-R at startup.

    Reset video at startup .............................. command+option+o+v

    Screen shot to Disk ..................................command+shift+3

    Screen shot to Clipboard .............................command+control+shift+3

    Selection shot to Disk
    (all the +4 ones work on 7.6.1 as well as 8.0 & 8.1)..command+shift+4

    Selection shot to Clipboard...........................command+control+shift+4

    Window shot to Disk (this is cool, click on
    a window with the special cursor).................... capslock+command+shift+4

    Window shot to Clipboard ............................ capslock+command+control+shift+4

    Boot Into Open Firmware (not for the faint of heart)..command+option+O+F

    Force PowerBook to use external monitor ..............Close lid just after startup tone

    Clear Chooser cache ..................................CMD-OPT when selecting Chooser

    Erase Disk on insertion ..............................CMD-OPT-Tab

    LaserWriter Specific:
    When accessing the "Page Setup..." dialog box from
    the Finder, holding down the option key when clicking
    the "OK" button will produce a dialog asking if you
    want to save this as the default settings.


    [url=http://www.grayswandir.com/sounds/knack.wav]The Knack[/url]
    [img]http://www.grayswandir.com/ima1'EO2Fswordlogo2.gif[/img]
  • edited December 1969
    Re: Computer Trouble, seeking advice

    The SCSI drive is external, right?

    Nope, internal. An old full-height IBM beast that I probably shouldn't have bought, but it's fun and will probably work for a long long time.
  • edited December 1969
    No luck :P

    I tried forcing a boot from the SCSI drive, but no luck.

    Right now it's looking like buy-new-motherboard time, Freewill, so if you could ask your client about his for me that would be great. If he's not willing to part with it there are a few up on eBay for acceptable prices.

    Thanks for your help,
    Evan/Pan
  • edited December 1969
    NEED HELP NOW!!!!

    My CD that I brought today don't want to play in my HP Disc!! Whats going on!!?!! What do I do?

  • edited December 1969
    2 questions...

    My CD that I brought today don't want to play in my HP Disc!!
    Whats going on!!?!! What do I do?

    First, what type of CD is it? Music, or data/game...

    Second, how old is the HP CD-player on your computer?

    IF it is a music CD, it very likely has anti-pirating technology built into it (ie. the SONY anti-copy crap)...It is designed to NOT play in a computer CD player because the Recording Industry feels that you are going to automatically burn 12,000 copies of your(They feel they still own it though)CD and sell them on the black market...

    If it is a data/game CD....not sure there...could be that there are other problems either on your end or on the CD....what is your OS? the age of your system (how long have you had the CD burner- maybe needs an upgrade on the drivers??), have you tried to play it on another system? Several variables are at work here...

    Keep asking...maybe someone can help you out more...

    McGyver
  • edited December 1969
    HOWTO: bring up the Open Firmware dialog

    Hi,

    I'm trying to get my machine to bring up the Open Firmware dialog at startup by holding down 'command-alt-O-F'. On my machine, I get the startup chime, and then nothing. The screen is completely black, no video signal at all. I hope that I'm right that I holding 'command-alt-O-F'on my German keyboad instead of 'command-option-O-F'.

    Please advice, thanking in advance,
    Vladimir
  • edited December 1969
    What machine?

    The Open Firmware dialog was only available on certain Macs. For example I'm sure it worked on the old Powerbook 3400 because that was one machine I needed it on once. So what model are we talking about?

    http://grayswandir.com/
    image
  • edited December 1969
    Re: What machine?

    The Open Firmware dialog was only available on certain Macs. For
    example I'm sure it worked on the old Powerbook 3400 because
    that was one machine I needed it on once. So what model are we
    talking about?
    I've got a Power Macintosh 8500/120.

    Finally, I have managed to access Open Firmware and edit variables with the "Boot Variables" *application*, bootvars-1.3a.sit.hqx.

    BTW, that was only an option because I don't have a serial cable to connect terminal to ttya of Mac that is working by default

    Thanks for reply,
    Vladimir

  • edited December 1969
    System Restore on Dell Win98

    I am working on someone's computer and its old and I got a Win NT restore Cd but i am still having problems because it will not erase Win98 and install Win NT. How can I delete Win98 and install Win NT?
    It doesn't have a system tools on it unless I can't find it. Can anyone help me? Its a Dell GXE.
  • edited December 1969
    Re: System Restore on Dell Win98

    Make a windows boot floppy. Boot from it, format the hard drive, then install NT.

    -Mori

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